Game of Thrones: Red Wedding and Other Robb Issues

Will contain spoilers sweetie!

Today I will be talking about three changes that the TV show made that I not appreciate - both relating to Robb Stark. As follows!

The Red Wedding

The Red Wedding is where the Freys invited the Starks and their bannermen to a feast and then mercilessly slaughtered them for breaking a promise that Robb Stark would marry one of Walder Frey's daughters. Also because Walder Frey is a petty asshole who was promised protection by Tywin Lannister (brilliant asshole) who wanted Robb Stark dead.

Very few women died in this attack, the only two coming to mind are Catelyn Stark nee' Tully and Dacey Mormont, a slit throat and an axe to the stomach respectively. Their deaths were not because they were women - Dacey died because she was a warrior for the Starks and was killed like a warrior. Catelyn was killed last because Walder resented the Tully's and she was the one who struck the bargain that was broken. These facts here are important for when I get to the TV show.

In the books, Robb was 15 and wounded in battle. A young noblewoman named Jeyne Westerling acted as nurse for him and in a moment of weakness they slept together. Since Westeros is basically a Medieval Earth Jeyne's lack of virginity would make finding her a marriage very difficult. So Robb married her, out of honour even though he had already made a bargain with the Freys in order to cross the river. He felt responsible for taking her virginity so he did the right thing by her. It is very important to note that his father, Ned Stark, was also an honourable man - which is what resulted in him telling Cersei Lannister that he intended to tell her husband about her affairs, which then led to Cersei having the husband killed, Ned locked up, and then her son had Ned executed. Death by Honour, as it were.

The Starks re-negotiated with the Freys and arranged that Edmure Tully, Catelyn's brother, would marry one of Walder's daughters. When Robb went to the wedding, he left Jeyne at the camps because he was smart enough to know that maybe bringing the person he broke the deal for would be a bad mood given Walder's reputation to be a temperamental bastard.

And then everyone at the wedding died.

Now for the TV show. It is very similar to the book, except where it actually counts. (Robb is aged up to 18, I think)

Firstly, we replace Jeyne with Talissa - a field nurse from Volantis. I don't mind this, actually. Westeros is lacking in career women. She meets Robb and after snarking at him and pointing out how most of the people he's out killing have next to nothing to do with the Lannisters except being employed by their bannermen, they fall in love and get married. She then falls pregnant.

She's around 3 to 5 months pregnant (judging by appearance) (and they're going to name it Ned) when Robb and the Starks take her to meet lord Frey and beg for his forgiveness. Of course Walder forgives them and says that he can see why Robb likes her - he always can see "what's going on under a woman's dress". (anyone getting the "oh crap" vibe?)

Cue the Red Wedding itself, which plays out as bloodily as before. Except Talissa is there. Pregnant Talissa. Who was incidentally stabbed first. In the stomach/womb.

She then dies in Robb's arms and then he's killed and Catelyn is the last one standing.

The Problems

First off, I would like to say that Talissa's death, while brutal, was not misogynistic. In fact, it even made perfect sense from Walder's perspective. That child growing in her was Robb Stark's kid - heir to the North. If it lived then he'd have a problem since the North would have someone to rally behind. (as far as he knows all the other heirs are either dead or hostages)

Talissa wasn't the target of that attack - her baby was. She was stabbed in the uterus because she was carrying Robb's child, not because she was female. Just like Theon was gelded because it was his "favourite plaything" and not because he was a male.

What I actually hate about her pregnancy and presence at the event is that it undermines the very purpose of Robb's death and plays to some very unfortunate stereotypes.

With regards to the stereotypes, let's make one thing very clear. The Red Wedding was a horrible event. In the book it was gruesome and shocking - and told all through Catelyn's eyes. Her last son killed before her eyes, after she lost all her other children. There are next to no words for it.

But the TV show didn't focus on that until Talissa died. We had to have Robb crying over a dead pregnant body. Because that's really all she was - she was introduced to be the "woman in the refrigerator". In the TV's rendition of the Red Wedding we didn't see Dacey, a female soldier, get an axe to the stomach. We saw Talissa, a pregnant wife, get a knife multiple times to the uterus.

Talissa's purpose was to die. And to be the token professional foreign woman to try and in a shallow attempt appeal to the feminists. And to give Robb a love story, but I'll get to that.

That stereotype was accompanied by one other one - men are disposable. We had hundreds of men die in this chapter but we focused on the death of the one "innocent woman". It is really disappointing that the writers would chose to perpetuate the mutually sexist notion that a woman's death is more poignant than a man's; that a woman is so weak that killing on is a true sign of a horrible person and that men are so expendable that a whole room of them can die and it wouldn't have the same effect as one woman.

Yes, I can see why they murdered her (because of the baby) but the fact that the baby was even there was just the writers creating more drama. It's a bloody (no pun intended) brilliant series and they didn't need to utilize the stereotypical "Look! Dead (Pregnant) Girl! This must be a terrible event!" The Red Wedding didn't need token dead women. Catelyn's death made sense - she struck the bargain, she was the Stark/Tully Matriarch. And yes pregnant Talissa's death made sense - but her pregnancy didn't. To show how mean the Freys are? We can pretty much see that the book's Red Wedding showed us how far the Freys were willing to go without giving us token dead women - it showed that the deaths of men could be just has terrible and depraved. The TV's Red Wedding was just the writer's going for cheap soap opera drama that perpetuated sexist stereotypes.

Robb and Catelyn's Relationship

In the books Robb is a 15 year old boy struggling with the fact that the Northmen want him to be their king and lead them - he turns to his mother to help him because not only is he a child who has no father anymore but a child who respects his mother and her opinions. And Catelyn is smart.

In the TV series, Robb's attitude can be summed up as "OMG MUUUUUUM STOP EMBARASSING ME MAN".

We understand that he was a teenager, but the point is that he was supposed to have half a brain and know his limitations. In the books he does mess up when he doesn't take his mother's advice. TV Robb scarcely acknowledges this.

Book Robb was raised by the serious Ned Stark and Catelyn Tully - Family, Honour, Duty.

Honestly, TV Robb runs by YOLO.

Robb Loves Talissa

Robb married Jeyne out of honour. Robb married Talissa for love.

The Problems

While we can all sigh and smile at the quaint little love story, it ruins the message behinds Robb's death. Firstly, we'd think that an older Robb would be a bit smarter than his 15 year old book counterpart, but we'll leave that alone)

Robb is like his father; honourable to a fault. And that's the precise problem with this change. Robb's death was meant to illustrate that when you play the Game of Thrones you cannot afford to be honourable - you must be pragmatic, you must be ruthless, you must be cautious. You cannot be Ned Stark. And Robb, the loving son that he was, did not realize this.

But his death was there to make sure we the readers did.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the most grievous error - it isn't for drama or to make him more "teenager-ish". It undermines the message behind the character.

Game of Thrones: A Critique of Critiques

Will contain spoilers sweetie!

Let's get one thing out of the way. Game of Thrones / A Song of Ice and Fire is violent. It is violent towards everyone. Rape is accepted a very likely possibility for the women if they are captured, and torture and mutilation is that way for the men.

These posts will in no way deny the levels of violence in GoT / ASOIAF. What it will do, however, is talk about some of the criticisms that I disagree with and complain a little on my own.

Now, the reason I watch/read GoT/ASOIAF isn't because of any liking for violence. Violence alone has never drawn my attention to a show or book - hence my aversion to the "slasher genre" and Jurassic Park 2. I like GoT/ASOIAF because of the politics, the intrigue, and the character development. Especially the intrigue. So, this post will be somewhat biased towards intrigue to be honest but let's get to it. Starting with what is probably the most violent incident in the series.

At this moment i may do around three, but I may add to it.

But yeah, I will be talking about Game of Thrones. And there will be spoilers.

Male Stereotypes and Male Rape

This topic will be covered again in the future with fun things like statistics and maths and legal definitions and sources. But for now, I'm going to be talking about some non-quantifiable aspects that bother me. I will be using some "grown up" words so... yeah.

We all know that men can rape women. We know that men can rape men. What people don't seem to understand is that women can rape men - not just boys, grown up men. They can also rape women.

Women can rape. I know, it's a shocker given the way that some people would like to act like women have only ever been the victims of and never the perpetrators of injustice. But, honestly, I feel that if equality of any sort is to be achieved in this world, it has to be done by acknowledging that there isn't a race, gender, orientation, etc that is completely "saintly" or completely "demonic".

But moving on from there.

I want to talk about the perceptions of female-on-male rape, and how the male stereotypes effect it.

What are some well known male stereotypes? Well, the first ones that come to mind are that men are strong, men are violent, and that men are constantly horny and ready for sex. We can see how this lends itself to the idea that men are rapists - it also lends itself to the idea that men are too strong to get raped and that they always welcome sex so, not rape.

I hate the "men are strong" one. Not all men are strong. Some girls are stronger. And no matter how strong a guy is, he'll react the same way as a girl to a date-rape drug. So, really, it's completely irrelevant to the idea of rape.

Now for the idea that men are always horny and ready for sex. Let's assume for one moment that this is true. Then why don't guys sleep with everything? Why do they reject some girls? Why don't they all use prostitutes? Why don't straight guys take sex offered by gay men? Why don't gay men take sex offered by straight girls? It's all "sex", right?

The fact is, even if men are horny all the time, they exercise some control and choice over who they have sex with - that is, they, like women, have the right to CHOOSE who they have sex with.


And now for the biggest player in this stereotype: the penis. As most of us know, the penis gets erect when the male is aroused; however erections can also occur as a result of fear, panic, and drugs. Oh, and let's remember that it gets erect due to blood flow - so a guy could be as flaccid as anything but if the rapist were to "encourage" the blood flow, we'd have an erection present.

But I don't want to address those - I want to talk about when the guy is aroused. When he really did find his rapist attractive, before she attacked him.

How many times have we heard or read about male-on-female rapists who rationalize that his victim "wanted it"? It was only a couple of centuries ago that it was "accepted knowledge" that a woman could not have been raped if she got pregnant since pregnancy was believed to be the result of enjoyable sex and rape was not enjoyable. Basically, "if she orgasmed, she wasn't raped". Or, as Fifty Shades of Fucked Up said "you were wet, you wanted it".

It case you didn't know, an orgasm is the result of nerve endings being stimulated. So it has nothing to do with the willingness of the participants. Actually, this has been recognized as a reason why some rape victims don't report their rapists - their body betrayed them and they feel dirty and low.

But this is the same logic applied to male rape victims. "He had an erection, he must have been willing", "He went to her house, he must have been willing", "He ejaculated, he must have" - it keeps on going on.

How come it's okay for women to be attracted to a man but not want to sleep with him? Because that's all a guy's erection says - he's attracted. Maybe he's thinking about having sex with her. But that doesn't mean he wants to at that moment, if ever.

How come the media says it's okay for a woman to change her mind, but a man is apparently possessed by the "boner werewolf" is contracted to have sex by its presence?

The fact is, there is no bloody difference here. A man and a woman have the rights to be attracted to someone but not have sex with them if they choose. I'm sick to death of the idea that a man's brain is directly wired to his penis.

Because when a 'normal' person says "He had an erection - he must have been willing", it's the same as a woman's rapist saying "she wanted it".

And because, "forced sex" is rape.